The truth once and for all

[rweatherford]

ASE doesn't mean much.  You can find ASE mechanics that are wonderful, and others that are just trained monkeys.  I have little faith in the ASE process.  Hands on experience means much more and you need the brains to go with it.

I am not ASE, but have seen the tests, and most mechanics wouldn't even touch my car.  It's a quad4 AND there is a turbo on it.

[HeartBeatKid]

ive been working on cars "back yard mecanics" since i was 16 with my first car  been working at my fathers gas station since i was 8 and been certified since i was 21 im now 22 and im having a blast at what i do

[3100SFI]

Quote (rweatherford @ Dec. 24 2004,08:03)Hands on experience means much more and you need the brains to go with it.
^--I just though that needed to be quoted. People need to bury that into their heads.--^

[Jimz90indy]

Quote (3100SFI @ Dec. 24 2004,08:35)Quote (rweatherford @ Dec. 24 2004,08:03)Hands on experience means much more and you need the brains to go with it.
^--I just though that needed to be quoted. People need to bury that into their heads.--^
I second that.
Nothing against ASE mechanics, but one of the first steps they were suppose to take when I brought my car in for a high idle was a vacuum leak; the one I found after they charged me the diagnostic fee and said my IAC needed to be reset.
Needless to say, I got my money back.

[spacecadetz26]

if you think ASE certification has anything to do with mechanical ability, I can more than guarantee you are one of those monkeys that thinks it actually something only mechanics can get, people that KNOW stuff about cars and the ONLY people that know stuff about cars.... Its a piece of paper you go in and pay $35 to take a test for. If i wanted to I could go in and take those tests and pass without even having to study for. This is by far one of the most retarded arguements I have ever seen.

Oh and here is the pic of the tires... I just uploaded it. You know, I should have just said I wanted some money back. But I was being the nice person since Jamie wanted to buy those wheels he so desperately needed. So if you dont want me to blame him why dont you just go back in your hole. and I will put this behind me.



Let me ask you a question Mr. ASEcertification.... Does this tire look like new? or as new? Mind you being so disgusted these tires/wheels spent 10 months sitting in my storage locker where I couldnt see them. I have more photos, but i think this will suffice.

[MAJ28]

I'm going to offer an additional objective opinion, but let me start by saying Erich and I have had a previous disagreement, and I'm not denying that I carry some blame, and do not wish to discuss that.

About this, I heard all about this swap from 2 people that were directly involved.  

Jamie:
         From my perspective you should have asked around privatelly about Erich and Steph's past, it seems to me that they sometimes screw up majorly and sometimes (less often [in my estimation]) do a great job.  I do not deny that Steph and Erich have some unique abilities, but I will also add that unfortunatelly a large portion of people on bnet should not be trusted right away.  Also, Jamie, you are definatelly smart enough to know that things seldom goes as planned and from your time on this board, you should know that's swaps often take longer then expected (and Erich should have also been of this opinion.)  I know you guys didn't majorly touch on this, but it appears you had MAJOR time constraints, and you are BOTH at fault for not realizing these constraints and the associated difficulties.  

From my own experience, (unfortunatelly) I know that you must obtain and CHECK all parts prior to an install.  You must admit someone at your home, or you with any kind of research online should have been able to figure out if you had the right struts.  I know it is a highly unlikely to recieve the wrong struts and often people do not check, but under these kind of (time)constraints that should have not been an issue.

I feel the only major fault on you is the fact that you relied on the organizational skills of another person which you do not know.

Erich:
       Like I said, you know for a fact that swaps often have problems that involve time constraints, and should have not planned a job in a time span as such.  Also, you often (or previously) sell parts on this board, and often have parts on hand that you are saving or planning on selling in the future, could you have not brought or purchased additional parts just in case?  Furthermore, with your experiences, the experience that Jamie was paying for, were you unable to identify a scuffed plate?  Were you not aware of the problem involved with such a plate?  

      I agree, about the working conditions, wether cars were literally "wizzing" by or not, it's far from an ideal working area.  Jamie should have maybe invested $30 (or whatever it costs) for AAA and got it towed to a more acceptable location.  

       Also, you didn't really get into this, but I feel that you got upset about Jamie's swap and ripped his friend off, and that is certainly understandable when people get upset, bottom line:  wrong thing to do.  A real man with integrity would send Jamie's friend the money.

»Jason

[spacecadetz26]

Quote (MAJ28 @ Dec. 24 2004,10:18)I'm going to offer an additional objective opinion, but let me start by saying Erich and I have had a previous disagreement, and I'm not denying that I carry some blame, and do not wish to discuss that.

About this, I heard all about this swap from 2 people that were directly involved. ÂÂÂ

Jamie:
     From my perspective you should have asked around privatelly about Erich and Steph's past, it seems to me that they sometimes screw up majorly and sometimes (less often [in my estimation]) do a great job.  I do not deny that Steph and Erich have some unique abilities, but I will also add that unfortunatelly a large portion of people on bnet should not be trusted right away.  Also, Jamie, you are definatelly smart enough to know that things seldom goes as planned and from your time on this board, you should know that's swaps often take longer then expected (and Erich should have also been of this opinion.)  I know you guys didn't majorly touch on this, but it appears you had MAJOR time constraints, and you are BOTH at fault for not realizing these constraints and the associated difficulties. ÂÂÂ

From my own experience, (unfortunatelly) I know that you must obtain and CHECK all parts prior to an install.  You must admit someone at your home, or you with any kind of research online should have been able to figure out if you had the right struts.  I know it is a highly unlikely to recieve the wrong struts and often people do not check, but under these kind of (time)constraints that should have not been an issue.

I feel the only major fault on you is the fact that you relied on the organizational skills of another person which you do not know.

Erich:
    Like I said, you know for a fact that swaps often have problems that involve time constraints, and should have not planned a job in a time span as such.  Also, you often (or previously) sell parts on this board, and often have parts on hand that you are saving or planning on selling in the future, could you have not brought or purchased additional parts just in case?  Furthermore, with your experiences, the experience that Jamie was paying for, were you unable to identify a scuffed plate?  Were you not aware of the problem involved with such a plate? ÂÂÂ

   I agree, about the working conditions, wether cars were literally "wizzing" by or not, it's far from an ideal working area.  Jamie should have maybe invested $30 (or whatever it costs) for AAA and got it towed to a more acceptable location. ÂÂÂ

    Also, you didn't really get into this, but I feel that you got upset about Jamie's swap and ripped his friend off, and that is certainly understandable when people get upset, bottom line:  wrong thing to do.  A real man with integrity would send Jamie's friend the money.

»Jason
its my understanding that you still do not know the circumstances of this. It was not planned to be 100% operational at the end of the day. and that the lack of communication is at fault. As I recall this car was not just broken at the time we arrived to work on it. It had been sitting a few months. So whether or not we had a deadline was not really an issue. Plates and dishes i have no idea what your talking about...

Get the facts there are all here for everyone to read. I am accountable for what happened and its all in the open now. I will not regress and say I was not at fault but I can say it wasn't ALL my fault. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing left to discuss.

And Maj, next time you need someone to do a swap make sure they can get the job done so you can enjoy your well spent money.  

Now that everyone can spend a day or two reading this, I hope you can understand my side of the story and base your judgements off that and not base your judgements on behalf of friendship. I was trying to be a good person and it back fired... I will learn from this.

[Ribz80]

Quote (ErichZ26 @ Dec. 23 2004,19:20)I am not blaming you for the struts, but you need to take responsibility, as I would have in order to make things work.

If i had ordered them it would have been my problem and my responsibility to get it corrected.  The transmission being done through kalamazoo was part of my responsibility to make sure it was done.  You are making it my responsibility to get the mount correct as some other items like the shifter.   The axles which were not my responsibility, the struts which were also not my responsibility put this project in jeopardy.  Axle seals and other problems would have been addressed because they were my responsibility. ÂÂÂ

We let you make the call on the project and went home as some problems really outshined others that morning.  You can say crap now, but most of this was unforseen at the time and work was stopped over issues that were your responsibility.
Wow you had some good points in that one but you have a big problem.  You and Stepth are a team.  They became your responsibility in convos with her.   I am going to get convos off my other school computer which will hopefully shed light on this all.   Understand I would not have you come if not ALL parts were accounted for first.  Yes in the beggining fly wheel and axles I said I would try and take care of it.   I had no car, I was relying on roommates that were often gone or running around.   So sometimes I could get a ride, when I did those couple of times axles and flywheels were special orders that took too long.   Steph was notified and said things like no problem, we have them on hand.   I will post these convos later.


Your right it was my call.  I think I did the right thing.  You were still going full tilt but Steph looked pissed and exhuasted.  I really think I could have paid to put you in a hotel for 1-2 more days and my car would have gotten done.   BUT if I would have done that more and more things would have been comprimised and the quality of the swap would have diminished.   We left saying I will go n break for two weeks, all parts will be rectified and you will come back rested and we will do the car outside the garage.   I thought that was perfectly fair.....thats how we left it.

[Ribz80]

Quote (spacecadetz26 @ Dec. 23 2004,19:25)Quote (Ribz80 @ Dec. 23 2004,20:06)Quote (ErichZ26 @ Dec. 23 2004,19:03)bad shift cable, bad shift plate, faulty flywheel, and  2 bad used bearings!!! ÂÂÂ

just a bunch a crap!
You said clean the shift plate, I did.  Cigarette mars dont come out.  Wouldnt be an issue till I saw the bill with you asking 20.  I dont know anything about cars remember, so the rest of the things like the cable were diagnosed by Geoff and or Chazz.  So if you think thats crap it wasnt even my call.
like i said in my first post. the shift plate and shifter would have been replaced. It wasnt a do or die part, I wasnt worried about it. but you made it seem a priority. my priorities were getting the holes drilled and the clutch and brake pedal assemblyes installed. I would have replaced anything that needed to be fixed. like the ignition, you know #### happens you just have to deal with it.... I will stick to my word 100% when it comes to something I am working on. the project is never done until everything works. I wouldnt leave it with something broken or not in the condition I stated and say it was "done"
Its nice to stand by your parts.   But dont you think it was a little late after our blow outs to say I am unhappy with certain parts.   You wanted nothing to do with me, and I with you.  It was have been petty to start demanding parts being replaced when we had gone our seperate ways.

And yes you did drill the holes and get the pedals in and the right way which did help Geoff/Chazz along by the time they took over.

[Ribz80]

Quote (ErichZ26 @ Dec. 23 2004,19:34)I am also curious, what did this end up costing you in terms of money?  time?  friends?

Then look at my gains from this....then you come out 10 months later throwing fists.

I kept this off Beretta.net for a while, even though i am blantly pissed about it.  It cost me money, time, and friends on this, to bail you out of a situation.
At this point its pretty hard to count.   The airfare to fly to pickup the car was free atleast.  I also wont count the O2 sensor which I think Geoff thinks he broke, and some of the other small details.   All said and done I think I had about 1800-2000...out of that 100 for stainless lines, 30 for a MOMO know, and 50 for pedals, so you were right a big 8% was all about that.

You invested a couple of days at the most.  So much time was invested to rectify many things that were sub par on your part.  Again how bad for you am I spose to feel?

10 months later throwing fists?   This didnt come out of nowhere.   I have been provoked for 10 months by you, Stepth, and countless members of the board over this.  It was time to stop whispering.

Oh you lost freind huh, I wonder why, how and who?   You going to try and blame this swap on your actions leading to losing freinds.....take some accountability.

At the time not having a car sucked.   Once I graduated I moved in with my GF.  Yes it did put a strain on us.  Every other weekend we had hopes that the car would be done but another parts problem would cause a delay.  So each day I would wait for her to come home in hopes of having  car which in fact was a gay little cabrio....but you know what I am glad for that since she is my ex now and for many reasons, not just not having my car.  I am much happier now with someone else so I will put NO blame for you on this one.

[Ribz80]

Quote (spacecadetz26 @ Dec. 24 2004,00:53)the flywheel wasnt my responsiblity.  If i was responsible for all the parts like Choate said, this wouldnt have happened, i did my part by providing a core.

and too bad you can see lincolns head on the penny, but "like new or as new with 7k miles" doesnt count in this case, I have witnesses that can account for the condition of the tires.
The whole tire thing is frankly BS.  Geoff had driven the car with those tires not long before them being taken off.   The wheels were not sold because of tire wear, I loved them and they had plenty of life left.   I just didnt want to do two sets, winter and summer anymore.   You came to pick them up, even touch them with your own hands.   You were happy with your purchase.   NOTHING was ever said.   I did not see a complaint until it was posted about me months after our ordeal about the tranny swap.....which said it was just bitter inflated sentiment.  


The flywheel became your responsilbity.  I TRIED only to find it would take 7 days.   You said ok fine we have one...it then BECOMES your responsibility.   If you dont like the responsibility then dont agree to it or pass it off how I failed.

[Ribz80]

Quote (spacecadetz26 @ Dec. 24 2004,01:17)Quote (Jdawg4201 @ Dec. 24 2004,02:09)Erich:im sorry i live in CT and J knows i dont go that far with my car fatrhest i go is to MD and thats for racing and also J knew i wasnt gonna be arround when he did the swap i was on 2 week vacation with family in FL

as for steph i dont care for the contition that was your fault for not getting a picture of them first hand
that was the first thing i asked him for when i wanted the tires and rims
this is rediculious
BRING IT ON!
for knowing ribz's history i should have gotten pictures, but since he is such an accredited beretta.net member I shouldn't have needed pictures. I can take full account on things I sell without needing pictures or misrepresting the item. and know that the person i sell to will be getting exactly what I advertised. I was expecting to get like new tires with over 50% tread left which is what he advertised. These tires have less than 3k usable miles left on them and 5/32nd tread. They better be some good $300 burn outs. Wheels are old junk. I wouldnt use them on my own car by fear of them breaking at the sight of the first pot hole.


I mean.. Did you even read anything that was posted? it seems as though you just skimmed quickly and missed the whole 3 pages.
haha knowing my history.   Look at your Ebay feedback!  I have sold quite a few things here over the tears, all over even to Canada to Gor.  But they key is i sold things just to get them out not to make money.   Jons mint tires on those ugly rmis I just wanted out, he got $400 tires for $20.  I have had numerous transactions and people were thrilled and most of the time there were never pictures.   To be honest one time I sold a kid here with a Corsica frmo VT my 15" laces with pretty work tires.   I sold it all for $50.  I had those on my car for years, never a problem.   For some reason when he put new tires on he said two were losing air.  I had no problems and he paid $50 for 4 wheels and 4 tires, and two of them had useable tread left.   So all he got was an apology.


I still think your tire complaint is BS.  No word from you was mentioned till after the swap blow up.   If you were really jipped in anyway you would have brought it to my attention ASAP, not 4 months later...thats fishy to me.  Also all your penny testing sounds like BS too.   We arent talking about Coopers here.   We are talking about POle Position s03's that were rated at what 180-200?   Get a brand new tire and see how much tread there is.   I had 7k miles on them and didnt abuse them.   You didnt say anything and you dont have any pictures to showme that clearly support having been BALD like you claim.

Your knock to the rims are clearly ridiculous.  I have had them on my car from 98-04, 100k miles total including 40-50k in Detroit with those horrible potholes.   Show me how many aftermarket rims with that use came with NO curbing, no bends.  I told you it had clear coat issues hence why I only wanted 100 for all 4.  You even said you mainly cared about the tires anyway.  IN fact you are recently on Bstuff selling those very rims and talking about their condition and I saw people were interested.   Yes I check Bstuff too every few months just to check what you are saying or doing that has anything to do with me.

[Ribz80]

Quote (spacecadetz26 @ Dec. 24 2004,08:42)Oh and here is the pic of the tires... I just uploaded it. You know, I should have just said I wanted some money back. But I was being the nice person since Jamie wanted to buy those wheels he so desperately needed. So if you dont want me to blame him why dont you just go back in your hole. and I will put this behind me.



Let me ask you a question Mr. ASEcertification.... Does this tire look like new? or as new? Mind you being so disgusted these tires/wheels spent 10 months sitting in my storage locker where I couldnt see them. I have more photos, but i think this will suffice.
BS, you were trying to be a nice person?   You are playing to the audience.   If you felt jipped you would have made it known.  I need the money to buy new rims and tires, guess what that money went to the tranny swap when many things needed to be set straight after you left.  I didnt have the money or even the car to get rims put on until OCTOBER.  So dont make it out that shiesty Jamie screwed you only to get RIMZ and you kept your mouth shut because you are such a sweetie pie.  

Even if your pics did work, how could the tire be as new?   It had 7k miles and it only has tread ware of 180-200.   The key is it had lots of life leaf for a tire like that.  Frankly I paid 650+ for the tires and 500 for the rims(though 100 was as much as I was going to get).......you got it all for 300 and you jumped on it FAST.   You knew you were getting a good buy and you did.

[rweatherford]

Quote (Jdawg4201 @ Dec. 24 2004,07:20)ive been working on cars "back yard mecanics" since i was 16 with my first car  been working at my fathers gas station since i was 8 and been certified since i was 21 im now 22 and im having a blast at what i do
Sounds like you have a good career ahead of you.  I just hate it when people go throwing around that they have certifications and that makes them know more than someone else.

So anyone want a beer!  

[Ribz80]

Quote (MAJ28 @ Dec. 24 2004,09:18)I'm going to offer an additional objective opinion, but let me start by saying Erich and I have had a previous disagreement, and I'm not denying that I carry some blame, and do not wish to discuss that.

About this, I heard all about this swap from 2 people that were directly involved. ÂÂÂ

Jamie:
     From my perspective you should have asked around privatelly about Erich and Steph's past, it seems to me that they sometimes screw up majorly and sometimes (less often [in my estimation]) do a great job.  I do not deny that Steph and Erich have some unique abilities, but I will also add that unfortunatelly a large portion of people on bnet should not be trusted right away.  Also, Jamie, you are definatelly smart enough to know that things seldom goes as planned and from your time on this board, you should know that's swaps often take longer then expected (and Erich should have also been of this opinion.)  I know you guys didn't majorly touch on this, but it appears you had MAJOR time constraints, and you are BOTH at fault for not realizing these constraints and the associated difficulties. ÂÂÂ

From my own experience, (unfortunatelly) I know that you must obtain and CHECK all parts prior to an install.  You must admit someone at your home, or you with any kind of research online should have been able to figure out if you had the right struts.  I know it is a highly unlikely to recieve the wrong struts and often people do not check, but under these kind of (time)constraints that should have not been an issue.

I feel the only major fault on you is the fact that you relied on the organizational skills of another person which you do not know.

Erich:
    Like I said, you know for a fact that swaps often have problems that involve time constraints, and should have not planned a job in a time span as such.  Also, you often (or previously) sell parts on this board, and often have parts on hand that you are saving or planning on selling in the future, could you have not brought or purchased additional parts just in case?  Furthermore, with your experiences, the experience that Jamie was paying for, were you unable to identify a scuffed plate?  Were you not aware of the problem involved with such a plate? ÂÂÂ

   I agree, about the working conditions, wether cars were literally "wizzing" by or not, it's far from an ideal working area.  Jamie should have maybe invested $30 (or whatever it costs) for AAA and got it towed to a more acceptable location. ÂÂÂ

    Also, you didn't really get into this, but I feel that you got upset about Jamie's swap and ripped his friend off, and that is certainly understandable when people get upset, bottom line:  wrong thing to do.  A real man with integrity would send Jamie's friend the money.

»Jason
I didnt have to ask around about them.   I have been around since 98 and so have they.  They do have some satisifed customers no doubt.   They have had their oops too.    But you can get crappy work at a dealership, its all the risk you take.   Didnt your wheel just fall off due to a professional shop...point proven.

Yes there was a time constraint and things didnt go as planned.   I tried fixing that with a two week hiatus.  All oops would be fixed and they had two weeks to do research or relax and not have to think about the poopy first try.  

I know about checking parts, every box that came in I opened.  But frankly I admitt I dont know everything.  A see a box marked L and R and I think its fine.   The NEW clutch hyraulic had a loose or broken strap therefore it was no longer pre-bled.....didnt know this at first.   To be honest those two things right there showed how this was all cursed and frankly incredibly unlucky.  Those two things are of no blame to them nor myself.   But it would have been fixed by the time they came back in two weeks, thats the whole point.