My Lowered 96 Chevy Beretta!

[Chad91GTZ]

Also, whatever method of figuring gas mileage, you're doing it wrong.

Who? I'm simply using Fuelly... lol

Not you.

Its been my experience that 90% of people I meet have no idea how to figure gas mileage.

[DTMAce]

Well, not nice to assume he is doing it wrong till we know he is, isn't it? Or is it me?

[Chad91GTZ]

Look at his numbers. Im not trying to be a dick. He is figuring his mileage wrong. Its not an assumption.


Look, in reality the only way to account for the margin of error in gas mileage calculations, (face it, there are a ton of variables, strange pumps, crappy odometers, bad gas, the federal government deciding that putting alcohol into gasoline was a good idea for people who grow corn, etc.) is to record your mileage driven, and gallons used, FROM DAY ONE, and divide. Thats it. That's the only way.

Just filing up till the pump stops and then dividing your gallons by the distance you've driven has an error margin at what I would say greater than 20%, with all sources accounted for. Its even LESS accurate over time because of all the times you "top off" or only put in ten gallons, or ten dollars, whichever you can afford that day. While the Day ONE mileage and Day ONE gallons gets MORE accurate as time goes on.

The best you'll ever get is an average. But no 3100 in a 3000 lb car is going to get 40 mpg. And crap breaking and wearing out on your car with almost 200k on the clock is rarely (read: ever) going to make your car run more efficiently.

Off topic, but on topic in a way, why is it on this forum when someone states something as a fact whoever reads it automatically think the person posting the fact is a dick? Jon is seriously getting crap on in a lot of topics and he probably could run circles around 90% of the people on here. He knows what hes talking about lol.

[SuzukiGhostRider]

I will be the FIRST to say Jon can be quite apt at mechanics. That said he DOES tend to state things incorrectly, whether by mis-statement or just plain lack of knowledge at times. I know he can't run circles around me,lol.

I still want to hear Ace's explanation about how a weaker fuel pump increases fuel mileage (and apparently Jon's theory too) backed up with some knowledge.....

Because simply put, it's BULL crap.......

[scd88ga]

1994 Beretta Z26 Quad 4 HO 5 Speed (with a few performance mods)...
My best to date is 415 miles on a tank, that was 80% highway 20% city roughly!

Honestly I could give two sh!ts what I get for mileage for the most part! I built my car to have fun with, so I race it, beat on it, destroy tires with it and love every second of it! It gets me from point A to point B and loves the abuse!

Many of us can run circles around each other with our knowledge, myself included! It's unfair to state that one person is better than anyone else, because we all have our individual specialties! This is the WHOLE REASON this forum exist, to share information amongst ourselves and throughout the internet! End Of Story!

[DTMAce]

Well, maybe not from day one, but you do have to have a starting point. Whether that day be the day you started driving the car or you start keeping track. But yes. Use odometer (not trip) and go full tank to full tank (fill it the same way every time) and you will have more accurate results. If you haven't, sign up on Fuelly and use that as a guide. You can access it from both computer or phone, and its easy to use. I have been using them now for over 2 years.

Here is the other thing. There is really no way to have absolutely-without-a-doubt results. But I can promise the averages will be damn close in the long run.

I can honestly say that every tank on the Z are completely full to full tanks. The base started with a partial and a full added together, but the first tank really can't be calculated anyway. Every tank since have been full.

I have checked my mpg over the years many times in the Z, and I have always had the same or similar results. One reason why I don't think my pump is bad, cause if so, its been bad since I bought the car new. lol But who knows.

BTW. What would you attribute to my getting 526 miles on one fill up? I gassed up just outside of Indianapolis after bfest, and drove all the way to the gas station here in my town. And it was on fumes when I got here. All I did was drive the speed limit, and didn't hammer the gas or take the RPM over 3k.. Math for that came out at 36 mpg, not too far from 40, and if someone did have a fuel starved engine, I can see it going higher as improbable as it sounds, but it certainly isn't good for the car in the long run. So highly unlikely, very rare in math or logic, but plausible? Sure. It was the highest MPG I had ever calculated with my Z. I think the highest before that was around 34.. I know I drove nearly 500 miles on that one, and that was like 10 years ago!

And I hear you on the other. There has been an excessive amount of... Hmmm Irritation? on the board lately. Not sure why really either.....

I will be the FIRST to say Jon can be quite apt at mechanics. That said he DOES tend to state things incorrectly, whether by mis-statement or just plain lack of knowledge at times. I know he can't run circles around me,lol.

I still want to hear Ace's explanation about how a weaker fuel pump increases fuel mileage (and apparently Jon's theory too) backed up with some knowledge.....

Because simply put, it's BULL crap.......

I already stated it in a previous post. But whatever.

[SuzukiGhostRider]

You will exhibit misfires and lack of power, as well as many other obvious symptoms that point to a weak fuel pump and NONE of these "improve fuel mileage due to my weak pump". So, "state it" all you want, it's still utter and complete CRAP.

Next thing you know , you'll be telling us that by unplugging 3 of your 6 cylinders you got better performance and 70 mpg.....

[scd88ga]

You will exhibit misfires and lack of power, as well as many other obvious symptoms that point to a weak fuel pump and NONE of these "improve fuel mileage due to my weak pump". So, "state it" all you want, it's still utter and complete CRAP.

Next thing you know , you'll be telling us that by unplugging 3 of your 6 cylinders you got better performance and 70 mpg.....

I agree with Mike 100% on this! Also, once a fuel pump starts getting weak, it doesn't stay weak for very long before it kicks the bucket! Fuel pumps don't just start going bad, hit a happy spot in the weakness, and stay there for all eternity! lol

[DTMAce]

You will exhibit misfires and lack of power, as well as many other obvious symptoms that point to a weak fuel pump and NONE of these "improve fuel mileage due to my weak pump". So, "state it" all you want, it's still utter and complete CRAP.

Next thing you know , you'll be telling us that by unplugging 3 of your 6 cylinders you got better performance and 70 mpg.....

LOL

Now I know that won't work! Maybe you need to think about this SGR. Maybe we should put this to an actual test? Setup a car with a variable pressure regulator, and run it at different pressures. Stock pressure, then drop it in intervals such as 10 or 15 percent, doing mpg checks each time, stopping when the engine starts running badly, misfiring, etc. And SEE if this holds. I'm betting you would see a gain, till the pressure reached a low enough point to actually not help. I think you are thinking that those with a weak pump are showing symptoms, when they probably aren't. I am sure there is a range of pressure where the engine will run or appear to run normally, and that range can be wide enough to have an impact. But only by doing a test, would any of us put this issue to bed. I'm proposing that we do exactly that. Maybe it can be a small side project at Fest next year. You game?

[3X00-Modified]

Thanks for posting weights guys. I'm not sure what's making your car so heavy Jon. Maybe the bigger motor and the 4t60e which IS a heavier trans?

I'm going to sound off on the fuel mileage issue as related to fuel pumps too.

Just because a few guys manage better mileage does not mean their pumps are weak. It's a POSSIBILITY , but usually a weak pump results in WORSE mileage not better. Not sure where that idea got implanted but it's complete mis-information, which is sadly, becoming a norm any more....

Once again I sate this knowledge because it's HAPPENED to me... I don't see how it would get worse since if you go and heavy foot it, its NOT supplying the fuel it wants therefor even if your hard on the car it will NOT consume as much fuel as it would, and also flow's less fuel all the other times... It's a PUMP if its failing it PUMPS LESS FUEL.

Oh I'm not yelling I'm just emphasizing the words I want you to see. And SCD88GA feel free, I'm done babysitting this thread someone else can deal with it, every time I do something I get backlash anyways, so I'll just let you all rip each other apart.

I ran about 2 tanks through my car when this pump was acting this way and I had no idea why I was getting 440 to a tank, I was confused, also the car felt like the motor was about done and I was truly contemplating a 3400 swap at that time, but then John Carter told me to check the fuel pressure and I did so, when doing that it was 43 PSI with the regulator unplugged at idle but I took it for a ride and it dropped down to about 25 or so PSI and the car just felt flat... Changed the pump and it was a completely different animal.

Don't know what else to say other tha happened to me, but I live in a bizarro world so I guess I'm full of BS and SGR is right so I'm checking out. Have fun with the continued arguing.


And yes I did my weight with the driver, because last time I checked every time you go somewhere your fat ass is there, so um yeah you should kinda include that extra weight. I was 200lbs at the time, so take that off and my car is 2975 with half tank and the 4t60e. I hate people who post weights with no driver.

[Chad91GTZ]

You got 526 miles on the tank most likely because you hypermiled, maybe without even knowing it, behind an SUV or semi or whatever. Doesn't anyone watch NASCAR anymore?

And I'm not picking on anyone, but I know of at least 5 threads where you have typed out, Mike, TYPED OUT, "oh whatever I didn't read this whole thing" after being wrong or incorrect lol. My statement was that people get crap shoved up their butts everytime someone says something. Wish it would stop, but this is the internets!

[Chad91GTZ]

And running a car lean is very very bad for it, so I'm just gonna count myself out of your test lol.

[theSLEEPER]

I see what you're saying.

I just started using fuelly, so we'll see how it goes.

I've been keeping track, but only averaging the mpg's I get. I'll let fuellly do the averaging from now on.

Look at his numbers. Im not trying to be a dick. He is figuring his mileage wrong. Its not an assumption.


Look, in reality the only way to account for the margin of error in gas mileage calculations, (face it, there are a ton of variables, strange pumps, crappy odometers, bad gas, the federal government deciding that putting alcohol into gasoline was a good idea for people who grow corn, etc.) is to record your mileage driven, and gallons used, FROM DAY ONE, and divide. Thats it. That's the only way.

Just filing up till the pump stops and then dividing your gallons by the distance you've driven has an error margin at what I would say greater than 20%, with all sources accounted for. Its even LESS accurate over time because of all the times you "top off" or only put in ten gallons, or ten dollars, whichever you can afford that day. While
the Day ONE mileage and Day ONE gallons gets MORE accurate as time goes on.

The best you'll ever get is an average. But no 3100 in a 3000 lb car is going to get 40 mpg. And crap breaking and wearing out on your car with almost 200k on the clock is rarely (read: ever) going to make your car run more efficiently.

Off topic, but on topic in a way, why is it on this forum when someone
states something as a fact whoever reads it automatically think the person posting the fact is a dick? Jon is seriously getting crap on in a lot of topics and he probably could run circles around 90% of the people on here. He knows what hes talking about lol.

[theSLEEPER]

You literally have no idea how I cut my springs... So why make ASSumptions?

If you must know. I used a Porta-band and held the spring less than 6" away from where I was cutting because I KNOW that the heat can mess up the springs. This isn't my first rodeo kid...


Whine all you want, but the job was done good for what was done.

I'll be the first to admit when I've done something wrong or stupid, but I won't sit by while you act like I'm putting everyone on the road in danger.

If it ends up being fuel pressure, I'll have to install an adjustable regulator to lean it back out.

Lean running motors make more power. More power, while using less fuel is a plus in my book. I'm very doubtful that I'm going to hurt the e running it lean while using 100hp max...

Seriously?

Hope you like valve jobs.


Secondly, cutting springs. Fitment and rotation and spring rates and force loads and chassis load and bump stops and x's and y's and all that math aside......

Think of how much heat you put into your spring when you cut it.

As someone with an expensive college education in metallurgy and manufacturing, cutting a spring with a saw or torch or whatever is about one of the stupidest things you could ever possibly do. Jon your posted information was great, but NOTHING in that really matters. Because unless you used a shear to cut that spring, that is all bogus math.

There is SIMPLY NO WAY IN THE REALM OF MATHEMATICS, PHYSICS OR STATISTICS that you could ever accurately measure what your spring rate would be on a spring that you have cut using a method that imparts work heat into it. Why?

Because you are changing the molecular structure of the metal, and therefore, in the simplest terms possible, all bets are off. There is no way to tell accurately with what you have available to you in your garage how you have worked that material, and what type of characteristics it will have. Coil springs are tempered AFTER they are wound. Saying that you see no issue with cutting a coil spring basically is you saying you have no idea how coil springs are made, which is fine I suppose. Im just trying to help. You ruined a set of springs. End of message.

[Ozzwoman9]

there have been a few air bag suspension beretta's. Jengtz (jensgtz?) was one that i know of. years ago i think i remember hearing that car is stuffed in a garage somewhere...

Yes, that car was bagged. And it's been sitting for about 3 years rusting away in someone's yard and that person will NOT sell it. Last time I saw it, it was looking pretty crappy, apparently it needed some minor work to pass inspection and apparently it was parked and never touched.