[SOLVED] P0336 Crankshaft position sensor A, What is this?

[zBusterCB87]

Hi all,

my car:
1996 Beretta 3100 v6 AUTO
including this posted problem I have, this engine runs extremely smooth, and is extremely clean, no misfiring of any kind, so idk...

My problem is this crankshaft position sensor code I keep getting:

Code: P0336
(Crankshaft Position Sensor A)

My question is that I'm confused as to which sensor this is?
I'm assuming this is about the crankshaft sensor behind the harmonic balancer pulley?
The problem is, I do not understand if this sensor is broken (its new, although there can be bad NIB things), or if this sensor is mounted wrong?
I placed it close to the signal wheel inside the harmonic balancer pulley, I'm confused, thats why I ask...

Or do you think its asking about that other crank position sensor on the cam? or the one in back of the block again?

Background info:
When I put this refurbished engine in this vehicle, everything was great, I put ALL new electronic sensors and parts and such...

I did have a 24x reference signal error a few months ago along with this same trouble code, but I fixed that by replacing the crankshaft sensor on the back of the block because they initially gave me the wrong sensor at the auto store...
then i cleared the codes and all was fine till recently...

I'm mainly posting to see if anyone has had this happen before and to see what they did, I've looked around and cant find much other than something not being aligned properly, which it seems to be correct to me, but there is only one fixed way to mount these sensors, so idk how it can be misaligned...

Thanks for the help!
I'll be tinkering with the car for the next several weeks because I'm on break from classes, maybe I can fix it, idk...

EDIT:
I just realized this:
Is it possible that I have the wrong crankshaft with the wrong slots on this engine?
How am I supposed to fix that? because every P0336 code I see references to the sensor on the back of the block?

[3X00-Modified]

I'd start by checking to see if the Crank pulley is fully seated in place and the sensor is ligned up with the ring on the inside of the pulley.

All 3100 and 3400 cranks are the same, they didn't change the block crank sensor till the 3500 came out. I'm also unsure on how they gave you the wrong block crank sensor to begin with?

Also if your engine is still running the sensor in the back of the block is not the issue... If that had a bad or wrong signal the engine wont even fire since it directly controls the ICM, and doesn't go to the ECM first. I would say unplug your pulley sensor and clear the code and see if it comes back.

This is the list for the block sensor so this is why I find it hard they gave you the wrong one...

Buyer's Guide: AIRTEX / WELLS 5S1665 Crankshaft Position Sensor
BUICK CENTURY (1987 - 2005)
BUICK REGAL (1988 - 1996)
BUICK RENDEZVOUS (2002 - 2005)
BUICK SKYHAWK (1987 - 1989)
BUICK SKYLARK (1994 - 1998)
CADILLAC CIMARRON (1987 - 1988)
CHEVROLET BERETTA (1987 - 1996)
CHEVROLET CAVALIER (1987 - 1994)
CHEVROLET CELEBRITY (1987 - 1990)
CHEVROLET CORSICA (1987 - 1996)
CHEVROLET IMPALA (2000 - 2005)
CHEVROLET LLV 1995
CHEVROLET LUMINA (1990 - 2001)
CHEVROLET LUMINA APV 1996
CHEVROLET MALIBU (1997 - 2003)
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO (1995 - 2005)
CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1994 - 1995)
CHEVROLET VENTURE (1997 - 2005)
GMC SONOMA (1994 - 1995)
HONDA PASSPORT (1994 - 1995)
ISUZU RODEO (1993 - 1995)
ISUZU TROOPER (1992 - 1995)
OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA (1994 - 1998)
OLDSMOBILE ALERO (1999 - 2004)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS (1997 - 1999)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA (1987 - 1996)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME (1988 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA (1987 - 1988)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1996 - 2004)
PONTIAC 6000 (1987 - 1991)
PONTIAC AZTEK (2001 - 2005)
PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1991 - 1992)
PONTIAC GRAND AM (1994 - 2005)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX (1988 - 2003)
PONTIAC MONTANA (1999 - 2005)
PONTIAC SUNBIRD (1991 - 1994)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1996 - 1998)

Also any 24x code is referring to the sensor behind the pulley, not the block one.

[zBusterCB87]

I unplugged the sensor, cleared the code, confirmed no codes, started engine, did the same as before, no code for the first short bit, then boom, after 30-100 seconds, the code P0336 comes back on...fail

I decided to try this with the CAM Position Sensor for fun because I'm bored kinda and don't know what else to do with this engine to fix this, so anyways:
I did the same to the Cam sensor and the P0336 code does not show up at all...
(The other 2 CPS were plugged in while the CAM position sensor was unplugged)

Now when I did each sensor, I also did the rev test, raise 1500, hold, raise 2000, hold, raise 2500, hold, release to idle, repeat once or twice. (Each hold was 3-5 seconds).

I'm really confused as to how I'm getting a CPS trouble code saying CPS sensor A on my cam sensor?
Its not physicaly possible to mix the wire plugs up, they are all routed where they should be, never had this problem with my old engine, thats why I assume that...idk
(Refurbished engine was installed because old engine kinda cracked apart, so-you-know, I did all the work myself, so I know nothing was messed up by anyone, I put everything back where it belonged...)

Also, I just realized, it says this code P0336 on CPS sensor A has a "Range Error," I found it in the scanner somehow this time...

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I did not know the 24x reference signal went to the pulley sensor, all I know is there was an A and a B version of the CPS in the back of the block, one was black plastic, the other was blue-ish, i returned the blue one, bought the black one, and installed it and that went away, idk how, but that confuses me, but it works so I wont touch it...lol

[zBusterCB87]

Ok, I might have found something...

Since my car runs normal, no problems, and everything is new, assuming nothing had any defects...

And, being that I put ALL new sensor and such on a refurbished engine, it looks like I will have to do this:
"CKP Relearn"

Supposedly I have to take my car to a dealer with a Tech II scanner to have this done?
Any thoughts on this?

[3X00-Modified]

I do not believe the 96 ecu has a crank relearn process... I know my 97 ECU does that I put in my 96, but I don't remember that working for my 96 one...

You could try, but if you were closer to someone with a DHP or HPTuners unit they could kick off the process for you.

[DTMAce]

This is more of a clarification for me, than a help, but I'm curious...

This being an SFI engine, does this particular sensor simply help the optimization of SFI, and when you get this sort of coding, it simply dumbs the engine down to MPFI mode? Just wondered if that made sense of why the engine still runs well, despite throwing that code is all.

[zBusterCB87]

I disconnected the CAM position sensor because the engine does not throw the P0336 code with it disconnected...
The only other noticable thing that happens with this is that there is a slight pause when you press on the gas peddle from idle... like 1 second, its nothing bad...

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I tried an ECM reset trick i found online, i hope it works, the SES light comes on, hopefully it goes out, if not I'll clear and run the CAM sensor disconnected for about a month before E-Check, because they want your cars SES light off and no codes to pass...

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I do not know if SFI goes to MPFI like the old 3.1, I thought it always was SFI just firing at different rates?

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I wish I knew someone with an HP tuner, this car can be easily performance boosted and this glitch fixed...lol

I really miss my 1990 Beretta INDY before it got totaled, it was so SIMPLE to work on, diagnose, and fix!

EDIT:
I just realized, I have a 1994/1995 3100 v6 ECM & plug without MAF in my grage, if I adapted that ECM to run my beretta, do you think it would be easier and cheaper since I cant get a hold of an HP tuner?
Only problem is the people at E-Check...lol: "Its plug wont work, wait, how do we roll test again?" haha

[zBusterCB87]

I just read that a Cam Position Sensor can throw a code P0337 on some GM vehicles OBD2...

Is that possible?

[3X00-Modified]

Your area shouldn't be doing an echeck on your car if it's obd1 that should be a sniffer only check.

[zBusterCB87]

They should not do a lot of things, but they do, idk, they almost caused a problem once by saying my 13,000 some mile INDY HAD over 200,000 some es, but it was fixed...lol

The car stopped throwing the code this morning on a cold start, I'm wondering if it is possible that the code showed up with a battery disconnect then went away?

Either way, the code was getting tripped, if anyone ever happens to come across why (I cant figure thus myself) that whould be fine if this thread gets bumped after a while, I'll respond, I just hate these little gremlins and ghosts...

I did try to trigger a case relearn & NVRAM reset yesterday, maybe it worked, I hop...

[3X00-Modified]

Well my point is they CAN'T do an e-check... An e-check is done because its OBDII and it supports an error check of all of the emissions systems... there is nothing in place on a 95 to error check the Cat, or to ensure the gas cap is working sufficiently, so they just can't do it. If the car is throwing a SES light and you go in for a sniffer test I guess they can say till the light is off they wont test it, thats possible, but it's not from them checking the computer.

I would simply check the pulley and make sure that its fully seated and that the reluctor wheel behind the pulley is lined up with the sensor... I don't know how a cam sensor could throw a code since I've see people with that unplugged and it not throw anything, BUT I've also heard that the cam sensor and 24x crank sensor work together for the SFI fuel injection, (Sequential port vs Multi port, it's 1 injector firing vs 3 at a time) and also for higher resolution on the spark advance since it can see what speed the crank is spinning at better. So the only thing I can think of is when you are unplugging your cam sensor its disabling both of those features so its not using your crank sensor input therefore not throwing a code about the reading being wrong.

[zBusterCB87]

Ok I see what you mean...
I have a better understanding of this now...

The E-heck place I go to says if the car was made with OBD2 it has to have the plug in test, if the light is on it fails automatically, if they plug it in and they see it was all cleared out they will say they cant test it, but when I just had the refurbished engine installed, they allowed it on the rollers, and my SES light at the time happened to burn out right after they turned it off and back on...lol

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I have the wheel well cover off, and the harmonic balancer pulley has a slight wobble, I will see if I can take it off and re-seat it...

When I cold started the engine, it ran perfectly fine the entire hour, no codes, even while driving most of that time, I turned it off after I got to the school to do some things today, it was off for about 30 minutes at most, then I turned it back on partially warm, and it threw a code, SES light was on...

Is it possible the sensor might be bad? expanding in some way when it gets warm?

I'm going to try to re-align the sensor while the pulley is attached, maybe I can get at the bolts with a nut driver, they are right there, and I do not have a hub puller...fail
(I dont want to buy a hub puller just for this...lol)
I'm assuming that 1-2 MM. space between the reluctor wheel and the sensor is proper?
I don't see how this can vary this much... >_>

[3X00-Modified]

OK which year do you have? You stated that you have a 94/95 V6 but your sig still says 96... Which is it? 96 has a MAF sensor 95 and older does not, 95 and older is NOT OBDII so they can't do a test on it, it will have a OBDI data port on the car, for testing purposed 94-95 Beretta is OBDI, not built with OBDII

Pulley pullers are cheap...

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... P2083_____

They have ones for 8.99 as well. You just need to find out which thread fits and then get one more bolt to match since I know only two of the right size is included so you can pull the pulley.

If your pulley is wobbling then there is something REALLY wrong... it should be pressed on to the crank and not move at all and run straight and true... If its not turning straight its either bent, or the rubber insulator is wearing and allowing the outer ring to move which yes will screw up the sensor ring inside and throw off the reading and throw a code.

You need pull inspect and reseat the pulley before worrying about the sensor, because that can't move.

[zBusterCB87]

Sorry if I stated this wrong, I have a 1996 v6.
I had written in my earlier post that I have a 1994/1995 Computer with harness. If its not to hard for me I might just see if I can wire that in to make the car OBD1, because OBD2 is to much trouble...
Actually, I also have a computer for 88/89 (No MAF), maybe I might just wire that in, it only uses the one crank sensor, and I can rid this annoying sensor problem...

I re-aligned my sensor, I still get the trouble code T0336, it appears after a few seconds, I'm starting to think my sensor might be broken?
The sensor is right next to the wheel on the pulley, literally almost touching, the wheel is not bent, its straight and clean, I'm really confused...

EDIT:
I found this guide about the sensor and how to test my sensor, I hope I can see if this works, I dont have an oscilloscope, just an older meter...
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/gm_ckp ... test_1.php

[zBusterCB87]

Meter @ VDC 20
READING Signal: 7.5 v.

Meter @ VAC 20
READING Signal: 5.52 v.

Meter @ 200K Ohm
READING Signal: 26.2 Ohm

Each one is from signal to ground...
Main Voltage input at plug is between 10-11 Volts, ground wire shows no resistance back to battery...
Same readings when I connect sensor directly to battery terminals for +/-...

This is at the plug on the sensor, is anyone able to confirm is this is bad or good?
I'm looking but do not see any ranges or readings for this thing...