MMS Stage 2 3100 Dyno Results

[MilzyZ34]

Well we took Blair's (a.k.a. Regal Blue) 1998 Lumina 3.1 out for a dynotune a couple days ago. On the first pass it made 177.7 whp and 175.2 wtq, Very impressive to say the least, especially with a fat 12.0 A/F ratio. I did some tuning over the next couple passes to get it to a 13.5:1 flatline, and tweaked the timing a little, and made 183.7 whp and 178.7 wtq.  These numbers equate to roughly 230hp and 223ft-lbs at the crank, for a gain of 70hp and 38 ft-lbs over stock. ÂÂÂ

Here are the mods that gave the car this huge performance gain ...

-MMS Stage 2 3100 heads (not 3400 heads, these are '98 3100 heads)
-MMS Stage 2 billet cam
-MMS cold air intake
-MMS Stage 2 pcm, (now tuned and added timing in some areas, peak timing same as it was, max of +3 over stock)
-MMS 2.5" mandrel exhaust
-MMS ported big style 3100 intake manifolds
-stock 3400 56mm throttle body
-stock exhaust manifolds and downpipe

Well for those who doubt our work, now you can see that our Stage 2 3100 package means business! ÂÂÂ

More info on this can be found in the customers cars section of my website ... www.milzymotorsports.com  

[TexanBerettaGT]

hooooly crap.

Congrats man, those are some impressive numbers.

[lllusion]

That's a sweet deal... Design some heads for the 3x00 crowd now and slap another 20 or so hp to the wheels  

[RebelGT]

What was the before or baseline of the car? What type of dyno was this on? There's no real way to compare to results with out this information, otherwise its just a random number.

[Norm 88GT]

In a 3.1 bored .030 over I made 150whp and 185wtq with a 2.8 after market chip.  Probably running a little lean.  But through in some race gas ran 14.7s in the 1/4 mile.  Probably close to 200whp.  But I guess the Buford is an automatic.

I have the heads and computer that can be programmed to pass emission for much less and their available.

$400 for pair of cams?!  Only in a 60 degree V6!

[rweatherford]

That's not a pair Norm.  That is ONE cam.

[MilzyZ34]

(rweatherford @ Jan. 29 2006,07:21)Q
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EThat's not a pair Norm.  That is ONE cam.
what can i say, short production isn't cheap

[MilzyZ34]

(RebelGT @ Jan. 28 2006,23:07)Q
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EWhat was the before or baseline of the car? What type of dyno was this on? There's no real way to compare to results with out this information, otherwise its just a random number.
I wouldn't say it's random

3100 cars with a 4t60e behind them typically make 125-133 whp in stock form.  This particular car does not have a dyno in stock trim.  Does everyone who's into performance always dyno their car when it's stock?  Hind sight is 20/20 i guess, but who thinks about this when they buy their first performance mods.

[RebelGT]

My point is, some dyno's show higher numbers then others, you can see a 10hp or more differance depending on the dyno you are using, and the accuracy of the dyno information I would also be able to tell looking at what type of dyno was being used. For instance, those people who hock that "tornado" device used a really crappy Sun dyno which aren't consistant, by using a low baseline pull, and a high after install pull they "proved" that the device worked. With this logic, I could prove that pouring dirt into an engine will give you horse power gains. I'm not saying that you're out to rip people off, but you haven't given a way to compare apples to apples. When I tuned my beretta, I started with a static pull, did 3 of those to make sure the dyno was calibrated correctly, and noted engine temperature etc. With this information you can begin to accurately determine gains. So yes, that number is pretty useless to me.

[MilzyZ34]

(RebelGT @ Jan. 29 2006,11:43)Q
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EMy point is, some dyno's show higher numbers then others, you can see a 10hp or more differance depending on the dyno you are using, and the accuracy of the dyno information I would also be able to tell looking at what type of dyno was being used. For instance, those people who hock that "tornado" device used a really crappy Sun dyno which aren't consistant, by using a low baseline pull, and a high after install pull they "proved" that the device worked. With this logic, I could prove that pouring dirt into an engine will give you horse power gains. I'm not saying that you're out to rip people off, but you haven't given a way to compare apples to apples. When I tuned my beretta, I started with a static pull, did 3 of those to make sure the dyno was calibrated correctly, and noted engine temperature etc. With this information you can begin to accurately determine gains. So yes, that number is pretty useless to me.
Well we used DynoTune Motorsports in Columbus and their Dynojet dyno.  it's very precise, one example of this is we dyno'd a car there about a week ago that was dyno'd at their facility a year before that with the same mods.  it made the same hp and torque (within 1) that it did a year ago.  So i'd say it's pretty consistant.  I use this place for almost all of my dyno work, so I know it's right, and the people who run it always have DynoJet staff coming in to verify it's accuracy from time to time.

[Norm 88GT]

(MilzyZ34 @ Jan. 28 2006,12:05)Q
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E(rweatherford @ Jan. 29 2006,07:21)Q
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EThat's not a pair Norm.  That is ONE cam.
what can i say, short production isn't cheap
Opps...and I just removed my Crane Cam from it's cracked block....d'oh!

Nice webpage though!  

Norm

[RebelGT]

ahhh, dynojet's put out higher numbers then some other dyno's, ussually a 10%+ish differance.

[wicked-irocz]

Im gonna add to this too.  Even though you are probably making some good parts Rebel has a very good point.  I do not trust numbers unless very specific procedures are followed.  For my project I used a mustang dyno that had just been calibrated using a coast down cycle from 200 mph where dyno drag is calculated at each speed.  I recorded starting and ending oil temps and made sure they were consistent, used a weatherstation to correct to STP, am using the same tires, same tire pressures, and same brakes/wheels.  I also took an average of 3 runs which all 3 were within 2 hp of each other.  I did this before and will do it on the same dyno after.


You have a very nice website. ÂÂÂ How long have you been in business? ÂÂÂ How many people do you employ? ÂÂÂ What do you have for testing equipment? ÂÂÂ Where is your business located at exactly?  Im guessing dayton.

[MilzyZ34]

(wicked-irocz @ Jan. 29 2006,21:01)Q
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EIm gonna add to this too.  Even though you are probably making some good parts Rebel has a very good point.  I do not trust numbers unless very specific procedures are followed.  For my project I used a mustang dyno that had just been calibrated using a coast down cycle from 200 mph where dyno drag is calculated at each speed.  I recorded starting and ending oil temps and made sure they were consistent, used a weatherstation to correct to STP, am using the same tires, same tire pressures, and same brakes/wheels.  I also took an average of 3 runs which all 3 were within 2 hp of each other.  I did this before and will do it on the same dyno after.


You have a very nice website.  How long have you been in business?  How many people do you employ?  What do you have for testing equipment?  Where is your business located at exactly?  Im guessing dayton.
Thanks, we're always working to improve the site.

I've been running this business for about 4 years now, officially since about October 2004.  when I graduated from the University of Dayton in 2004 for Mechanical Engineering, I decided to get a little more serious about the business, and invest in myself.  It's definately a money-pit right now, but I think I'm doing a decent job of building a good rep, which I think is better than making money the first year.

Up until very recently I've been the only employee.  I do the board surfing, dealing with customers, e-mails, shipping, designing, dealing with vendors, fabrication, installations, tuning, the whole nine yards.  I also contract several fabricators to make parts for me which I design.  I also have a friend who does my website work for parts.  About a week or so ago, I brought on two friends who are very good mechanics to help me keep up with everything that needs done.  One is ASE'd, and one went to UTI.  They are good at what they do, and I pay them what they're worth.

As for testing.  My machineshop I use has a flowbench, DynoTune has the dyno, I use my pcm scanning/editting software to scan vehicle performance before and after installs (in the form of MAF readings, not a g-tech or anything).  I'd say the best test equipment we have is actually taking the cars to the track, b/c that's what all this is about anyways.

I run a lot of the business out of my house just south of downtown Dayton, and work out of several shops in the Dayton area.

[mcgavinz26]

You're living the dream.  I'd like to get a shop doing some automotive performance stuff... but that probably won't happen, not on my own anyways.  I say good job and good results.  I think most of us know the ballpark range of what these cars are putting down, enough to know that those numbers aren't too shabby.   Go easy on him, who cares if he didn't get it dynoed stock.  As arnorld would say in T3 "RELAX!"  

What kind of gas were you using in this run?  Did you change the compression ratio change at all (I see that some milling was an option on your stage 2)?  What kind of intake temps were you holding during the run?