stutter putter....help

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:26 pm

i'm going to cut the details down quick then ask questions

-no engine light
-stutters and spudders at stoplights
-oil pressure and idle drop almost total shut down
-does it randomly
-sometimes slow to turn over when cranking
-occasional hesitation on take off(not bad)

how do i check the relay to see if it still good and where exactly is it?
how do i know if it is the fuel pump itself dying, is there a test for it?
plugs and wires have been changed recently so they are good
i was also told it could be a bad cat but i'm not sure about that
any other possiblities??

it has done something similar a while back but it was resolved with a little seafoam and better gas. this doesnt seem to be exactly the same

Ozzwoman9 · Post by **Ozzwoman9** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Vacuum leak?

scd88ga · Post by **scd88ga** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:41 pm

I would have to say it's the cat.

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:43 pm

what do i do about the cat.......barring replacement

Post by **3X00-Modified** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:53 pm

to test pump do a fuel pressure check...

The only way to test a clogged cat is to cut it off and look through it... I had to do that to mine on a hunch and got lucky... quick fix was a extension pipe an adapter and 3 clamps till I could get a new cat and weld it in properly.

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:09 pm

muffler shop just quoted me 114 installed for the cat.

guess i'm going to call around for fuel pump.

i did the poor mans exhaust check and have a putter of blowback coming from the tailpipe if that is of any relevance.
i also hear a hum under the car near the gas tank which i assume to be the pump functioning and is a good thing i hope.

edit.....
called local shop to ask about fuel pump replacement...............340 bux

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:16 am

well my car so far has totally stopped the stutter and sputter after i put enough gas to put me over half a tank. what are the odds my fuel gauge is funked? how do i check it?

Post by **3X00-Modified** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:30 am

Sounds like you need to drop the tank and inspect the fuel pump connection lines and operation to see if there is possibly a leak somewhere allowing air to get into the line.

You can only check the gauge setup if you drop the tank.

Also listening to the pump is far from check its operation... If your not going to do proper trouble shooting then your just taking shots into the dark and your best bet is to drop it off at a shop and have them check it over and tell you what the problem is, otherwise your just wasting time and money

beretta · Post by **beretta** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:49 am

the price to put a cat on isnt bad. the cat is probably 40-50 and 50 to put it on plus tax or something. but with aftermarket cat it will be slightly louder.

The fuel pump cost is ridiculous, i paid 125 ish i think for my fuel pump in my 88. so they are charging you alot for labor. its easy to take the tank out, 2 bolts on the straps, take the filler pipe off at the tank, undo the fuel lines ( the should have fittings by the filter to take them apart ) the wires will unplug. the back end of the car has to be up high as you can get it, its easier if you can get jack stands under somewhere other then the rear axle so the axle will hang freely and not be shoved way up, you will need some space to get the tank wiggled out.

My friend had a pit in his garage when i did mine. i was lucky and all my bolts and lines come right off.

Pretty simple do it at home job, you need a couple wrenches for the fuel lines, a socket and ratchet for the strap bolts and a flat head screw driver to take the clamp off for the filler pipe. then to get the sending until out of the tank there is a steel ring that goes around it, take a flat head screw driver and hammer and gently tap it around, it will only turn one way and goes like 1/4 way to get past the locking tabs.

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:11 am

the 125ish you paid, is that letting a shop do it or is that the diy price?

dropping the tank seems easy enough but i dont trust my self doing things like that. if it werent for bad luck i wouldnt have any at all!

my father in law had his fuel pump installed for 100 dollars on his '02 astro van. but he did pay around 300 for a nicer model pump. so if the pump is cheap enough it may not be that big an expense. i have seen them for around 60 dollars.

as far as the cat goes as long as the car sounds a little beefy, i'm all in.

as long as it doesnt sound like the stupid ricers we have around here.

i'm still wondering if my fuel gauge is crapping. the first tiime i had the stutter issue it was around 1/4 or less. it was at the same spot this time. the speedo is off a little too and the temp gauge seems to run low on the meter as well. how do i find out if the cluster is farting out?

my father in law mentioned it may be a sensor since it does have a slight stink to the exhaust from time to time. i really dont want to get into running down sensor problems.

would doing a slow total replacement of relays and sensors be worth it or should i wait until they die?

i really wish this kind of stuff would throw a light so a code could be pulled.

beretta · Post by **beretta** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:19 am

i can find my box from my pump and check the receipt, im pretty sure it cost me around 140-150 with tax and that was with a discount, i got it from Car Quest, im in Canada. could be cheaper somewhere else but i needed it that day since it was booked for pollution test the next day. that was the cost of the pump only.

Ya some might be 60 bucks, i had a 88 iroc, and it was 60 bucks for that one, thats throttle body injection that requires less fuel pressure, our pumps are 45 psi i think...

And im not sure about the 91+ or 94+ pumps on our cars, my 88 was basic, it pulls out of the sending unit and can be swapped easy. i know some of the grand am's and such was a whole sending unit/pump in one and you had to buy the whole thing, those are like $300 bucks. ive never had the tank out of my 96 beretta so i couldnt tell you what style pump they have, im just assuming its the same as the 3.1 L pump or very similar

if your exhaust stinks... its time to change the cat converter.... i like the idea of more flow and little more sound, i have aftermarkets on both my cars, although im looking for a stock cat from a 3800 engine because those have larger pipe and will give me a bit more flow and wont be as loud.

Edit:... the stink in the exhaust could be from fuel problems too, if the engine is running lean ( not getting enough fuel) it could run hotter. i would probably start with the fuel pump, its very simple to diy. and with the age of the car it wouldnt hurt to change out the pump anyways. most fuel pump failures starts with the fuel filter.. a plugged filter will burn out a pump, running the car on bottom half of the tank to empty it will suck any crud thats in the tank. fuel filter is only $10.00, i try to change mine once a season just to be safe.

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:29 am

here is the one i was looking at

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=977691
this one is 67.79

beretta · Post by **beretta** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:34 am

NAPA Echlin $129.00.. this is probably the price i payed for mine LOL. i didnt know about rock auto then, and i needed it, i didnt have time to shop around or wait for shipping. it was readily available to me.

Post by **3X00-Modified** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:03 pm

Standard labor costs are typically $95 an hr but vary depending on shop, so if you see a pump at $129, they will obviously charge you more than that already since they need to make a buck, so figure $175 on the pump, so take that away from $340, that leaves $165 which is less than 2 hrs labor...

Rather than just getting a quote an complaining about it, get the cost of their labor per hour and then you'll understand it better... granted he may be able to find a shop to do it for less per hour but the possibility of the work being the same is slim.

$340 to drop a tank and install a pump on a car is not a bad price for someone who doesn't have the ability to do it themselves.

also be aware that rock auto link is ONLY the pump, that would not fix any fuel level sensor issues you may have, but what the hell do I know, I've told you twice now to get REAL trouble shooting info such as FUEL PRESSURE to ensure what is going on and you just keep talking about throwing parts at it.

$455 and you can have them do both things then maybe your problem will be solved, but who knows we are just guessing here with the info at hand.

themadness wrote:i really wish this kind of stuff would throw a light so a code could be pulled.

You don't have a Modern OBDII vehicle with more reporting... the 96's OBDII barely had enough codes to point you in the direction of failure and OBDI was even worse, you need to manually trouble shoot these issues to figure out whats going on, thats the joy's of owning an older vehicle, and wanting to DIY stuff.

themadness · Post by **themadness** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:01 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:Standard labor costs are typically $95 an hr but vary depending on shop, so if you see a pump at $129, they will obviously charge you more than that already since they need to make a buck, so figure $175 on the pump, so take that away from $340, that leaves $165 which is less than 2 hrs labor...

Rather than just getting a quote an complaining about it, get the cost of their labor per hour and then you'll understand it better... granted he may be able to find a shop to do it for less per hour but the possibility of the work being the same is slim.

$340 to drop a tank and install a pump on a car is not a bad price for someone who doesn't have the ability to do it themselves.

also be aware that rock auto link is ONLY the pump, that would not fix any fuel level sensor issues you may have, but what the hell do I know, I've told you twice now to get REAL trouble shooting info such as FUEL PRESSURE to ensure what is going on and you just keep talking about throwing parts at it.

$455 and you can have them do both things then maybe your problem will be solved, but who knows we are just guessing here with the info at hand.

themadness wrote:i really wish this kind of stuff would throw a light so a code could be pulled.
You don't have a Modern OBDII vehicle with more reporting... the 96's OBDII barely had enough codes to point you in the direction of failure and OBDI was even worse, you need to manually trouble shoot these issues to figure out whats going on, thats the joy's of owning an older vehicle, and wanting to DIY stuff.

wow someone is cranky

i wasnt complaining so much as was surprised that it cost that much. the average labor cost here is 60 bucks an hour and that is pretty standard at any privately owned shop. i havent thrown parts at it. i'm just discussing possible alternatives to a high cost repair. start cheap, right? if changing a relay or something small fixes an elusive issue i will be more than happy to pay 20 dollars as opposed to 400.

guessing....brainstorming whatever. you have tons of experience i'm sure but i dont so i ask lots of questions. if you are upset that i didnt take your suggestion right off, then maybe i'll buy a beer someday.

this is the first time i have owned a car that is this aged. i'm tackling what i can and trying to figure things out. its the best i can do

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