95 Beretta 6cyl- intermit rough idle/run/stall

[Ctimbers]

ok.. here's how it went today... not done yet..

got off the coils, icm, and plate underneath to get the back plugs..
2 came out ok, and back in ok..
[*][/color] 3rd was a little snug the whole time coming out, but when i went to put in new plug, it wouldn't thread right.. only got about 2 turns, give or take, before it was tight.. i tried to reseat it several times all with the same results.. think the threading might have been bad in the hole and last plug was forced.. called someone locally and said that even though it's not in all the way, it should be ok.. paying someone to rethread it might not be affordable.. need input here please,.. ??

[*] only other issue really was that there was a pack of wires attached to the plate under the icm.. the second i touched it, the tube around them was so brittle it just shattered with virtually no effort, i just barely touched them.. so i put that wire bundle back, but that tube around them right there is gone.. was told it shouldn't matter.. input here too please..??

so far, those are what i need input on now please... really really wanna finish tomorrow if possible.. thanks very much..

the front plugs went fine.. worst thing was the inside connector from the wire stayed on the plug when i pulled two off.. no biggie..


if you're interested, no biggies just a note, yep, hit a couple of other snags too.. kinda funny in a way.. when i put the coils on, i wasn't watching and put two on backwards... silly.. guess they're not idiot proof.. lol... but when i went to take off the pcv, the tube wouldn't come off, so when i pulled hard, that rubber L joint that plugs into it broke it was so dry and brittle, snapped right at the joint, and still can't get it off the old one... back to the store tomorrow to replace that rubber joint, then i'll try to start it.. if it starts, i'll break out the carb cleaner..

but i really would like some input about that plug that's in tight but definitely not down all the way please...

thanks very much..

[Money pit Beretta]

Ok, work that plug in and out until it goes all the way in. I had the same trouble and there was a leak. You know, the sound of a plug not in all the way. More or less you will have to chase the threads by using the plug. Turn it until it gets very tight and back it off. Do that over and over until you get it fully seated. That is if it's at the right angle!
The wire loom does that after time(the heat makes it weak). You can buy new loom at the auto parts store if you want. The 90 degree PCV fitting does break, mine did, it's the heat under the hood again. Pull the end off a plug wire and use some small clamps to seal it until you find another. Clean the IAC and the port before you start it.
Yes, the connectors for the plug wires come off and stay on the plugs all the time(at least for me). I hope you have low ohm wires, the high ohm ones can kill coils after time. My longest wire has 7.7 ohms and I tested a poor set at 24 ohms.

[Ctimbers]

it doesn't say anywhere on the box about ohms.. its prostart #ch76127sp

[Money pit Beretta]

Very right, you have to have a tester and do it on your own. Next time check as many brands as you can. Buy the one with the lowest ohms on the longest wire. If you can test the brand you have and post it. By the way, AC Delco is close to 12 ohms. That would make it ok, but not the best.

I'm very sorry, I should have put this info in a post long ago(and the info on the plugs). You bought everything before anybody had a chance to give any info on what is best to get. Not to say that you have done anything wrong. I just would have liked to help. I feel as if I let you down.

[Ctimbers]

with that plug, i tried reseating it several times... put it in til it was snug, took it out, tried again, and again and again...

kept getting the same results.. even turned it in reverse first cause sometimes twisting something off first when putting it on will help seat the threads right.. but still, the same..

best i got that plug was only about 1/3rd down, if that.. waiting to pick up the replacement rubber elbow for the pcv to see if it'll start good, but is that spark plug something to really worry about? like will it shoot out and start a fire? or just leak? or something?

Thanks very much.

[3X00-Modified]

You only got a spark plug a 1/3 of the way in? If so your cross threading it.

Did you put any anti-seize on the threads?

if so you need to purchase a spark plug thread chaser and fix that head quick before you destroy it... Removing a head is much more difficult than running a tap through it.

Also Bosch +4 plugs are not recommended for our cars. Your best bet is AC Delco's or Autolite's or NGK

[Ctimbers]

can anyone please send details of firing order? i'm sure i put them on right, but it's not running right.. can't even get around the block.. i jury rigged for the pcv the end from a spark plug wire as suggested, was a little loose on one end, so i had an small extra hose clamp put over it for now..

turns over, sounds consistent but rough, step on the gas, doesn't want to go..

dont' know if i got the wires wrong, is it that one plug, is it the pcv fitting, if its something else i messed up.. doesn't sound too loud, still kinda quiet, but it is a little louder than before...

[3X00-Modified]

Looking at engine coils are 5 2 3 6 4 1 Left to right.

engine is orientated sideways so looking at it left to right it's

1 5 3 on back head
2 4 6 on front head

is one of the plugs not in all the way?

[Ctimbers]

thank you...

so ok.. thats gotta be a sign of too much stress or tryin too hard.. i had it drawn out right on paper in case the numbers fell off the wires.. so even with numbers on the wires (ok, a couple did fall off while working) AND the sketch of numbered coils and cylinders, i still managed to mess up the 5 and 3.. dang!.. lol

ok.. got that straight.. ran it a little, still have the pcv joint jury rigged as mentioned.. it runs a lot better now so far, but i can feel the original problem is still there though presently more mild... i don't want to run it much til both cylinder and proper pvc joint are resolved... cant get can't seem to get that stupid L-joint anywhere around here, and the dealer says $35 to get a new line is my only option.... salvage yards dont have anymore - found only one and it cracked when i put it on... is there a real name for that piece so i'll look online more tonight please?

for the plug/cylinder, i did remember one thing that might be relevant... when i was pulling the plugs out... the one that i'm having trouble getting in all the way.. when i took out the old one, cant remember what it felt like or how many turns, but that was the only plug whose threads were moist - not terribly wet just moist, and the others were all dry... all i can smell on it was gas.. it's been in a bag for two days, but i'm leaving it on the counter on top of plastic to see if it dries..

thanks very much...


EDIT: I did notice one other thing... when the wires were out of order... the result when i stepped on the gas was an exaggerated version of exactly what i feel sometimes when first starting the car, usually cold but sometimes even warm like going to the store.. it will not move like that for about a block or two, then catch up and start moving if i give it more gas and a few more feet..

[Money pit Beretta]

That plug wasn't firing. Did you get the coils tested when you tested the ICM? Yeah, it's hard to find the PCV elbow. It took me months of going to the JY to find a good one. Test it before you buy it. It should be flexable, if it's hard look for another. Look for one on a newer car with a 3100 or 3400.

[3X00-Modified]

Let me ask this one question I just want a yes or no answer...

Is there a spark plug that is NOT fully threaded into the head?

[Ctimbers]

yep

[3X00-Modified]

Well then you need to fix that. Your electrode is not exposed to the combustion chamber so your getting marginal ignition in that cylinder if any. The fact that your are still driving and trying to troubleshoot other issues with a spark plug half threaded in is beyond me, but I would have stopped there and tried to fix that first before it creates more issues.

[Ctimbers]

Well then you need to fix that. Your electrode is not exposed to the combustion chamber so your getting marginal ignition in that cylinder if any.

I didn't realize that.. And putting it that way, it definitely sounds like it could be the cause of the intermit. rough idle/run, so thank you....

again, my knowledge is minimal about maintenance, so it's not something i would have known... the other issues are intermit. too, and this is the first time i've worked on the car, so not sure what was really done to it before and which int. issues might be related... i'm also noticing that just because mechanics said they fixed stuff or changing parts apparently doesn't mean they did, or i'd have already known about the problem with that cylinder... and i'm not sure how difficult tapping that cylinder will be or if it will take more muscle than i've got - never having done it, and unable to afford a proper rebuild, its quite nervewracking...

And being a newbie, i was still looking to see if there are any other possibilities for common causes, ie: would a short cause the intermit. probs and others, etc., not sure how it all flows together - i just know a couple of parts...

[*] [/color]please correct me if i'm wrong, but (when i get the tap kit) to tap the cyl: [*] [/color]
- i need to remove the coils, icm and plate again
- carefully remove the appropriate wire and plug (yes, it has antiseize)
- feed the tap by hand with some grease, once it gets snug, go one full turn, remove, clean, regrease and repeat to avoid filings (what size tap please?)
- when done, try to wipe hole with cloth/rag
- then put new cyl back in with antiseize grease and dielectric on terminal for wire


thanks very much..

[woody90gtz]

Make sure the plug is not cross threading... and if you are straight and it still won't bottom out you can make a poor man's thread from an old spark plug. Just cut the threads of the plug vertically on opposite sides and it should screw in fairly easily. You dont actually want to cut threads like with a tap, you just want to clean/repair the threads you have.